The trichotomy view of humans is correct.  In the book of beginnings, Genesis chapter 1 verse 26, it is written, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."  Who is God speaking to when he makes this statement?  Does not God exist as three separate, co-equal persons?  If man does not consist of 3 parts, also, what does one make of the following verse?  1 Thess 5:23  "And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire...".  The dichotomist view is to blame for all of the confusion regarding salvation.

In two instances, Paul only speaks of "body and spirit" (1 Cor. 7:34 and 2 Cor. 7:1). Does that make him a dichotomist? If the prooftext, 1 Thess. 5:23, becomes our guide, then Paul proposed two views: trichotomist and dichotomist. OR, it may be that no such view was intended -- in each of these cases Paul is concerned with the whole person.

As for the analogy, yes, God is trinue: three, co-equal persons. Last I checked, though, my body did not pray to my soul. Nor has my spirit ever declared he is well-pleased with the soul. Further, this analogy is never made in scripture. Further to the point, when God made man, he made a body, and animated it with the breath of life. That is a dichotomist picture (if you're inclined to that sort of thinking).

I consider Chitwood to be a millennial exclusionist, and I have written about him and millennial exclusion at my blog (http://agabus.com). His "unusual view" of salvation is that one aspect of redemption is merit-based, i.e. salvation of the soul is attained through rewards. Consequently, this form of salvation is not by grace, but by works. Indeed, we are to work, and we will be judged according to our works, but that we are saved by works or merit or reward is counter to scripture. I am convinced that God desires us to be perfect, as he is perfect. To fall short of God's glory is exactly that: to fall short of his glory and the righteous requirements of the law. One amount of faithfulness will not redeem several amounts of unfaithfulness. Thus, soul salvation is not merely extrabiblical, but also impractical. We cannot work our way into the kingdom.

For the record a statement describing Millennial Exclusionism that Chitwood teaches follows.  It is by Mark Adams at agabus.com.

Chitwood is representative of a type of dispensational theology termed Millennial Exclusion (sometimes called Kingdom Exclusion), and particularly of Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Jacksonville, Florida (I understand he attends there).
 
Millennial Exclusion has the following characteristics:

• Tripartite man for the purpose of distinguishing three types/aspects of salvation (accomplished successively, not comprehensively)
• Soul salvation, a works-based mode of redemption -- one might say it is a merits-based system (this conceptualization of salvation contradicts scripture)
• Millennial exclusion of carnal Christians (these will suffer in the lake of fire for one thousand years); eternal exclusion of non-believers
• Emphasis on assurance (applicable to the first aspect of salvation -- spirit salvation -- and effective to the other aspects)
• Emphasis on reward and ruling with Christ
• Emphasis on type and antitype, which effectively allegorizes vast portions of scripture (they would not use the word "allegorize" though)
• Separatistic -- they do not generally accept fellowship with other Christians

A variety of ME theologians and pastors hold to this doctrine. As to the number of Christians who hold to this teaching, I cannot tell (it appears relatively small, but not insignificant).

Actually, I was using "hyper" in the generic sense. My intent was to describe Chitwood as a radicalized dispensationalist, and as such, he may not fit the accepted use of that term. Chitwood preaches the "whole" counsel of scripture. That said, he does appear to make some very sharp divisions between the nations (Israel and Gentile), and the mode of salvation.

 --Mark at agabus.com

Having reviewed in detail many of Chitwood's works, I have found him to be in complete alignment with

God' Word; so much so, that I have now added many of his books in MSWord format to my

website, www.bibleone.net.

 Charles

So where does it say Christians will be cast out of God's presence?

Mark @ agabus.com

 I'll post three where it is obvious that inheritance is in view:

Ephesians 5:3-7
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:6-8
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Let also me begin by stating that none of what I'm presenting here is meant to in any way attack the security of the believer with respect to eternal verities (for example, believers will not spend the endless ages within the lake of fire).A good section of scripture to indicate the eternal security of the believer (as you know) would be Eph. 2:8,9.

For by grace are ye saved [lit. 'you have been saved'] through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8,9.

You may find it rewarding to do a study on the Greek text concerning this verse, (if you haven't already) it's really quite remarkable what's being said.

Here's a quote from "The Believer's Study Bible":

The full sense of the expression "you have been saved" is difficult to capture in English. The Greek perfect tense emphasizes action initiated in the past, the effects of which continue into the present and beyond. Therefore, salvation has a moment of initiation in the past, but the results of that primary experience continue. This is another evidence of the permanence of our salvation, a doctrine which is called the "eternal security of the believer."  ( Criswell, W A. Believer's Study Bible: New King James Version. 1991. Thomas Nelson)

Just using the perfect tense alone would be enough to emphasize the eternal security of the believer, but the verse also borrows the durative aspect of the present tense verb to give persistence to the existing results.

For example the Expanded Translation reads:

"By the grace have you been saved completely with the result that you are in a state of salvation which persists through present time." Present time in this instance is always the time at which the reader reads his statement. The security of the believer could not have been expressed in stronger terms. (Bibliotheca Sacra: A quarterly published by Dallas Theological Seminary. Volume 117. Issue 466. Page 142)

That's why I inserted "you have been saved" into the text as a translation of two Greek words which form what is called in the Greek text a periphrastic perfect.

To review:

...The "perfect" tense refers to action completed in past time, with the results of this action extending into the present and existing in a finished state.

...The "periphrastic" construction places additional emphasis on the present, finished state and refers to the persistent results during present time of the past, completed work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you look at the context of this verse, it quickly become obvious that the salvation being spoken of is contrasted against the person being "dead in trespasses and sins" and that this salvation was brought about "Even when we were dead in sins" and that it was not brought about because of the individuals works.

This does not mean, however, that this salvation was not made possible by works, only that the works were not on the part of the one who had been saved, rather they were on the part of Christ and His finished work at Calvary, for it is on that basis alone that life can be imparted into the one being "dead in trespasses and sins".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now to deal with the word soul.  The Greek word for soul is transliterated as [psychē].  Below I've put together some of the new testament verses dealing with the word [ psychē] as you read them, notice that I've highlighted some of the words in the surrounding context as an aid to help demonstrate how this aspect of salvation is directed to and dependent upon the life of the believer (conditional), as well as to point out that this aspect of salvation deals with positive rewards for faithfulness out ahead when Christ comes and establishes His Kingdom and also to show the biblical principal that suffering precedes glory.

Hebrews 10

35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul [psychē].

_________________________________________________________________________________

James 1

16Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

19Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

 20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls [ psychē].

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

[the souls of Christians, those who have 'passed from death unto life,' the only ones in a position to received the engrafted (implanted) word]

_________________________________________________________________________________

...James 5

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul [psychē] from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

_________________________________________________________________________________

1 Peter 1

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls [psychē].

_________________________________________________________________________________

This last portion of scripture in First Peter is a good section of scripture to indicate another of the three tenses which the Word of God uses with respect to salvation.
Notice that this salvation is a "hope", it is "ready to be revealed in the last time",  and it is "the end (goal) of your faith".
 
This is another area (like Eph. 2:8,9) that many point to in order to indicate the eternal security of the believer and yes, it is obvious that they, with respect to their eternal salvation by grace through faith "are kept by the power of God through faith".  How could they not be?  They were saved in past time, with the results of this action extending into the present and existing in a finished state and with persistent results during present time of the past, completed work.  The present results of the past action, can only (must) continue unchanged forever.

Having said that, notice what is being pointed to, a "salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" the word translated revealed is from the Greek word transliterated [apokalyptō] some definitions of which include "to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown".  This is speaking of the salvation which will be made manifest at the Judgement Seat of Christ after that all Christians have been "tried with fire" and some found worthy of "praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".

This salvation is placed, in its entirety, at a future date...Not only that, but it is an inherited salvation (one must be a family member first).

Here is another scripture in Hebrews which speaks of salvation in a future tense and also as an inherited salvation. 

Are they [angels] not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of [lit. 'for the sake of the ones about to inherit'] salvation (Heb. 1:14)?

There exists a sharp distinction between this salvation and the salvation previously shown in Eph 2:8,9 because the salvation in Ephesians dealt with a salvation which was a free gift and just two verses later in verse 12 it is stated "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens" so the salvation shown in Eph 2:8,9 was given to the individuals while they were alienated and as it continues to say in verse 12 "having no hope, and without God in the world" (interestingly enough, as a side note, the words "without God" come from the Greek word transliterated [atheos] and is where we get our word atheist, theos means God and the prefix "a" negates the word so it means "no God"). These verses show that the individuals being spoken of were in no position to inherit salvation, because inheritance as seen in scripture is always a family matter.

Numbers 27
8And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter.
 9And if he have no daughter, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his brethren.
10And if he have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his father's brethren.
11And if his father have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his kinsman that is next to him of his family, and he shall possess it: and it shall be unto the children of Israel a statute of judgment, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Romans 8
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 Inheritance as seen in scripture is also referred to as a reward (not a gift).

Colossians 3 
23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

 Notice also that just as the engrafted word is able to save your souls [ psychē], it is also able to give you an inheritance.

Acts 20
32And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 

~~~
one closing thought on this matter:

For whosoever would save his life [psychē ] shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life [psychē] for my sake shall find it.
For what shall a man be profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and forfeit his life [ psychē]? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life [ psychē]?
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds (Matt. 16:24-27, ASV).

~~~

One common statement within Christondom is as follows: "If someone does not persevere until the end, then that person was never truly saved to begin with."

This statement advocates the 5th point of Calvinism (Perseverance of the Saints) to the peril of the 5th point of Arminianism (Falling from Grace) and it's a common argument.

Perseverance of the Saints

"Believers are kept in faith and grace by the unconquerable power of God till they come to glory."

Falling from Grace

"It rests with believers to keep themselves in a state of grace by keeping up their faith; those who fail here fall away and are lost."

There is truth in both of these two conflicting arguments.  The problems arise when one fails to distinguish between the salvation which is the present possession of every believer and the salvation to be revealed. The prior, bringing ones spirit into a living state, so that one can receive the spiritually discerned Word of God with a goal out ahead and the latter being the reward of faithful Christians who will then be found worthy to rule and reign with Christ as His Bride for a thousand years when He comes to establish His Kingdom, with the ones not being found faithful still being eternally saved, but as through fire.

--If we suffer [lit., 'patiently endure'], we shall also reign with him: if we deny him [relative to patient endurance, i.e., if we do not patiently endure], he also will deny us [relative to His reign, i.e., we will not reign with Him]."

Sorry about the font size, is there any way that I can edit this post?

khobby@gmail.com 

This topic is also being discussed at the following link:

http://agabus.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/2/P0/

 ~~~

 BTW...I wrote this post: "Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:01 PM"

Please feel free to contact me: 

 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:17-23

Let's start from the top:

I wrote: "So where does it say Christians will be cast out of God's presence?"

 You begin your response with the following:

 (PREMISE:) "The whole of the Epistles warn of the fact that some Christians will be approved and others unapproved (will obtain the inheritance or will be denied the inheritance) at the Judgement Seat of Christ, though the warnings are almost invariably interpreted by the present Laodicean church of today (of which I am a member) as applying to unbelievers... "

You support your premise with Ephesians 5:3-7.

(OBJECTION:) This passage does not mention the casting out of Christians from God's presence. It says the "children of disobedience" will not inherit, but suffer the "wrath of God." Scholars understand "children of disobedience" to represent those outside the covenant of Christ.

Further, that passage does not mention Christians being approved or unapproved at the judgment seat of Christ.

Anyone else agree that the foundation to Kevin's argument begins with an unsupported premise?

Sorry, Kevin, once you press the button there is no chance to go back and change the comment.

I am intrigued by the similarity of this discussion to some of the ideas of the New Perspective on Paul (see the series I wrote recently on NT Wright and his views on justification). There is a similar concern to take more seriously (or at least differently) the judgment seat and the relationship of our works to justification. But many traditional scholars have not been overly impressed with their views, although there are some who moving towards a future aspect of justification (Doug Moo is an example). There are some differences as well: there is no talk of two kinds of salvation or the inheritance wording does not come into play, for example. But some of the same concerns are present. 

RE: The parable of the talents, the faithless servant, etc.

J.D. Faust calls this "temporary punishment." Also, reference Chitwood's "The Outer Darkness." http://lampbroadcast.org/plets/phtm1/OtrD.html

 It's really not that vague. Will some "saved" Christians suffer some period (e.g. 1,000) of being cast out of God's presence.

 Mark Adams, blogging at http://agabus.com

Not entirely, but that is also a good question. I should note, that despite your assertion that the phrase, "being cast out of God's presence" is vague, you did provide a detailed response. I was not aware that the phrase was so very vague. So two questions:

1. Where does it say Christians (any type) will be cast out of God's presence.

Or...

2. Where does it say "some saved Christians suffer some period (e.g. 1,000)"?

Note: What did you mean by "saved Christians"?

 Mark, blogging at http://agabus.com

I was quoting you...

...Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:51 PM

Kevin Hobby 

Mark,  YOU STATED THE FOLLOWING: "I should note, that despite your assertion that the phrase, "being cast out of God's presence" is vague, you did provide a detailed response"

As should be apparent, moreover, as was previously noted, because God is omnipresent a statement such as "being cast out of God's presence" has to be relative to something, since this "something" was not supplied within your question, I took it upon myself to interpret said question in the light of being cast out of God's presence in relation to being denied the inheritance, as opposed to obtaining the inheritance.  In other words being cast out of God's presence in relation to being denied a position reigning with Christ (the “second man”, the “last Adam”), as His Bride (just as the first man, the first Adam and his bride, which was built from a small portion of his body, after that he was put to sleep and his side was opened, were to rule the earth together), as opposed to not reigning with Christ (the “second man”, the “last Adam”).  In other words being cast out of God's presence in relation to "not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen [lit. few are called out]" (as the first man, the first Adam's bride was taken out of and built from a small portion of his body), as opposed to being "arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness [lit. righteous acts] of saints" "therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.  And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done.  And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife" "Wash thyself therefore, and anoint thee, and put thy raiment upon thee".

Kevin Hobby 

This topic is also being discussed at the following link:

---Kevin Hobby 

First off, I'm glad you assumed the question implied that God is omnipresent . I don't know how otherwise one would construe it. Second, I cannot accept your application of the parables. This might start an entirely new debate, but let us finish the first.

So, unfaithful, non-overcoming, carnal Christians will not reign with Christ. I assume you are not speaking in a figurative manner, so where do the unfaithful, non-overcoming, carnal (whatever you want to call them) go? What is their fate?

Mark blogging at http://agabus.com

I don't support Chitwood's work. He does assert two (three?) modes of salvation. The first is "spirit salvation," which is by grace, a free gift. The second is "soul salvation," which is determined by how one "runs the race." To me, coupling salvation with human effort is a gospel of works, but there are others who disagree with that view. (I suppose the resurrection of the body is a third mode of salvation, but I frankly don't understand how one person, a being, is saved in three parts.)

This present debate seems to be between me (Mark at http://agabus.com) and Kevin. Didn't mean to hijack this topic. Chitwood and his beliefs do appear to be a subject that needs critical review. Most of what I've read on the Internet about Chitwood is favorable. There's very little critical analysis.

How Theoblogian came into all this is that a Google search rates your blog quite high. I've been writing about it at my blog.

 Mark at agabus